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Heaven # 4854 If You Were Not Attached, Why Would You Mourn?
Posted February 18th, 2014 by Normand Bo...
Dear Gloria,
in http://www.heavenletters.org/if-you-were-not-attached-why-would-you-mour...
parag. 5
And water itself! What an occasion for joy. You can splash in it. You can drink it. You can make ice cubes of it, and you can melt the ice cubes. Are you not a miracle worker of sorts on your own?
What is a (miracle) worker of sorts? Is it equivalent to "a sort of miracle worker" on your own? (I doubt.) And what is a "miracle worker"?
Thanks


How there are so many shades
How there are so many shades of expressions in English that I don't even think about. Then you ask a question, and I realize it isn't such a simple thing at all.
There was a play called The Miracle Worker. It was about Helen Keller. She was blind and deaf and simply wild in her behavior. Her teacher, Anne Keller, was the Miracle Worker. She took Ellen from a wild girl to a happy calm girl who began to understand language. Actually, at least according to the play, she first began to understand language when water was running over her hand as the teacher signaled the Braille word for language.
A Miracle Worker would refer to someone who has done a spectacular job. I could say that you are a miracle worker, Normand, because even when you are traveling all over the place, you somehow keep up with your translations.
A miracle worker of sorts isn't quite the same as a sort of miracle worker. A miracle worker of sorts would mean, to my understanding, a varied kind of miracle worker, or another. A sort of miracle worker would be not quite a full-fledged miracle worker.
About God, again to the way I see it, God creates miracles. I don't think we would say that He is a miracle worker, although He is. It's just not good enough expression to apply to God. Miracle worker is a kind of pedestrian expression.
Is it clear, dear one?
Once again I thank you for posting your question.
This idea is really not easy
This idea is really not easy to translate. Perhaps God, avoiding to say that we are ourselves creators, want to say that we also do spectacular things with what we have in our hands (art, science, etc.). I am still perplexed.
Perhaps we'll have feedbacks from other translators. How about you, Charles?
Dear Normand, not at all
Dear Normand, not at all anything complex. Simply what it says. God isn't avoiding anything.
My dictionary says that "of
My dictionary says that "of sorts" means "ordinary, mediocre" - but it sounds strange that God would say such a thing about us, when He also says that we are created in His image.
***********
Never think that you are I. Know that I am you. /HEAVEN #515)
Yes, Paula, that was exactly
Yes, Paula, that was exactly the purpose of my questioning.
God speaks of the wonders of creation, of water that becomes ice cubes that can melt.
Then He immediately follows in saying: "Are you not a miracle worker of sorts on your own?" What is the relation between us as miracle workers of sorts of our own and the amazing properties of matter created by God? There must be some implicit connection between those two utterances but I don't catch it.
I would interpret sorts as a
I would interpret sorts as a kind. Ordinary, in a sense. Mediocre, no. I never heart of sorts connected with medicine.
There is also, to add to the mix. the expression that someone is out of sorts, meaning cranky or crabby or perhaps not feeling well. These are the connotations that occur to me.
Oh, the intricacy of words!
translation miracle worker of sorts
Dear Normand,
I translated that sentence in Dutch :
Ben je niet zelf ook een soort wonderdoener? , which means Are you not a kind of miracle worker yourself?
But reading your question and the answers, could it not be that is meant that we are a miracle of species, due to all the things our body can do?
I don't whether this helps, and will wait for the answer.....
from heart to heart, namasté, Anneke
With all these nice
With all these nice interpretations (very valuable and valid), I still am in the clouds with that sentence. I cannot connect it with the rest of the Heavenletter and I don't understand its meaning with what precedes it.
Isn't it strange how words
Isn't it strange how words that seem self-evident in meaning, aren't. Taking Gloria's example of Helen Keller, if someone had walked up to her and laid their hands on her, and all of a sudden she could see and hear and speak fluently, most people would regard that as a miracle, and the person thru whom this happened would be regarded as a miracle worker.
But for someone to cause an unruly child, or a class full of unruly children, to sit quietly and listen, this might be referred to as working a miracle when it obviously wasn't, a tongue-in-cheek comment giving everyone a smile or a chuckle. I think that is what God is doing here, making a playful, tongue-in-cheek comment about turning water into solid pieces, and then turning those solid pieces back into water.
Obviously this is not what we would call an actual miracle, and so God refers to it as a miracle worker OF SORTS. You could also say SORT OF a miracle worker, or as Gloria and Anneke point out, KIND OF a miracle worker. It's a little joke, not one to fall down on the floor pounding your fists, but just a little smile because you have called something ordinary as if it was extraordinary. A bit of an exaggeration for effect. And yet, water in itself, if studied enough, is quite miraculous, and so there is an element of reality that makes the joke a bit more sophisticated.
The word SORT implies that you have taken a collection of something and divided it out into different categories. This is called SORTING it out. Sometimes the categories overlap and it is not clear where something goes. You could sort out the words in a paragraph and end up with nouns, verbs, adjectives, and so on. You might have a verb that is acting as a noun. Is it a verb or a noun? Well, it's sort of a noun. Or kind of a noun. Or a noun of sorts. The different word order takes a slightly different form for sort/sorts for no logical reason. That's just how we say it.
SORT OF or OF SORTS implies that something doesn't exactly fit into a particular category. Teaching Helen Keller to read is sort of a miracle. Teaching ordinary kids to read might require a certain skill but wouldn't be regarded as sort of a miracle. It happens all the time. It might help to regard SORT OF as an idiom, an expression that means more than it's parts taken separately. Essentially meaning KIND OF or A TYPE OF. No idea of mediocre involved but possibly the idea of lesser. A subcategory.
Too many words, Normand, but if you are still confused, please say so. It seems like expressions that most people think of as self-evident are often the hardest ones to pin down.
Yes, yes, yes! What a
Yes, yes, yes! What a beautiful response. I think you are a miracle worker, Charles! You certainly are the elder of word connotations!
Normand might have a
Normand might have a different take. It's really important to be able to say you still don't understand something when you don't and not feel dumb. Remember when we went on and on, only to find that the question was about whether "arms" meant limbs or weapons? I felt pretty dumb after that one. Language is extremely complicated when you start poking around in it, but a three year old child learns it with little trouble. Anyway, I am always glad to see a new problem brought up here. This is fun for me.
Charles, you did a wonderful
Charles, you did a wonderful expansion or extension of Gloria's original comment. It is a piece of literature in itself.
And where I remain in the clouds is exactly where you point out yourself so appropriately: "And yet, water in itself, if studied enough, is quite miraculous, and so there is an element of reality that makes the joke a bit more sophisticated." Indeed, that is where I miss the connection between a miracle worker, working a miracle, a kind of miracle, a miracle of sorts.
I probably would not have that problem of understanding if I was a native English speaker. But each language, and each language speaker have a cognitive pattern that has no correspondance in another language. We reach sometimes what we could call the limits of translation.
Miracle worker in French is translated as "faiseur de miracle" which would be in English " a miracle DOER". Worker in French is not equivalent to doer, although a worker "does" something. A "faiseur de miracles/a miracle "doer/worker" is easily associated with a magician with a bit of pejorative or ironic connotation. If you can say in English that Jesus was a miracle worker, in French we wouldn't use a noun like "worker" to express Jesus's miracles. We would use only a verb like "accomplish": Jesus accomplished miracles.
The closest translation of "Are you not a miracle worker of sorts on your own?" to my knowledge of English and French would be "Are you not a little (=of sort) a miracle doer in your own way?" If I am missing the point, dear Gloria, just tell me and I'll try to figure out something else. But, for sure, what I don't understand properly, I cannot translate properly. And won't be of any use to our French readers.
I love those linguistic exchanges. They make this translator forum really alive. Thanks to all the contributors.
Normand, every translator is
Normand, every translator is a miracle worker.
Yes, I, too, agree with you about Charles. Charles, didn't I give you a fancy title? What was it?
Charles, if you could get to a question from a translator quickly, I would abdicate in your favor.
Gloria, unless you have the
Gloria, unless you have the final word in this enterprise it doesn't make sense, altho I'm sure you would say that God has the ultimate final word.
Normand, yes, those distinctions occur in English too. I imagine that most people who have actual miracles occur thru them would be quick to say that they cannot "do" anything, it is God who does the miracle. And most people who would refer to themselves as miracle workers would be suspect of either trickery or using forces not coming from God.
It isn't important that "worker" be translated literally, just as "miracle" isn't being used literally here. Whatever would work in French to give the idea of someone who is able to accomplish something extraordinarily difficult, like teaching a blind and deaf person to communicate, without any implication of magic.
You say that in French you would say that Jesus accomplished miracles. Maybe that is your solution. Is there a way you could say that Jesus was a miracle accomplisher in French? If so, then maybe changing slightly the sentence you offer you could say in French "Are you not a little miracle accomplisher in your own way?"
IMPORTANT
Oh, dear Charles, translators have to stay as close to the original Heavenletter as possible. God did not mention anyone in this Heavenletter. Norman cannot and would not add anything else to the Heavenletter. No, beloved Charles.
I'm so sorry that I wasn't clear. I meant for you to explain the meaning and connotations of English words or expressions that are not clear to a translator. You are fabulous at that. No one could do better.
It is out of bounds to suggest any addition. I'm glad this happened now so that this is clear to all of us.
Charles, the way I see it is that Normand may want to back away a little bit. Put this translation aside and start all over fresh in a week. . If a Heavenletter, or a part of a Heavenletter, is too uncomfortable, dear Normand can give it to Philippe or someone to give it a while. I know that some translators find answers in another translator's translation.
The translation can wait. From a vaster point of view, If a particular Heavenletter isn't sent when the English Heavenletter goes out, it's not dire. All will be well. It's not always possible to have the consistency we would like.
I tell you, this is the biggest problem any of us should have!
Charles, if you were able to come in quickly to a translator's question, I would know that the translator would be given excellent help from a great understander and explainer of English, and I wouldn't feel to have to rush there because I would know you are taking care of it.
Everyone must know I love word meanings. This page is one of my favorite things to respond to, yet there are long-range projects that need to be done and hardly time to do them in.
Assistance is needed in many areas.
God bless you, Charles and Normand, and thank you.
Now I'm confused. This is
Now I'm confused. This is the sentence in question that Normand was confused about:
"Are you not a miracle worker of sorts on your own?"
This is the meaning I suggested he work from after much discussion:
"Are you not a little miracle accomplisher in your own way?"
To me those two sentences mean essentially the same thing. The second one avoids English words that were problems for Normand, and likely other French speakers, and uses similar ones that hopefully conveyed the intended meaning to him so he could translate.
To me, that is staying as close to the original meaning as possible. I don't understand what you mean when you say that God did not mention anyone. No one is mentioned in the original except "you" and no one is mentioned in the workaround except "you". As to adding anything to the Heavenletter, I simply don't understand what you are referring to. In no way was I suggesting that the original wording be changed for English speakers. Please help me out here.
Dear Charles, I think I was
Dear Charles, I think I was mistaken. I'm too hasty. I thought you were suggesting that Normand add Christ to the Heavenletter. So sorry. Your solution looks good to me.
Apologies. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. This is what happens when I rush.
Come back!
Ah, I think both Normand and
Ah, I think both Normand and I can plead not guilty on that one. Perhaps this particular puzzle is finished. It was a toughie! Looking forward to the next.
Yes that puzzle is finished,
Yes that puzzle is finished, Charles. You gave us a good input. But since there is no noun in french corresponding to 'accomplish', I will stick to "faiseur". If there was a slight touch of irony in God's utterance, then it will be found in the French translation.
Beloved Normand, I know what
Beloved Normand, I know what a great sense of humor you have. Monsieur, accomplish is not a noun! It is a verb. Is there a typo here by chance? Nevertheless, what an accomplished (adj.) translator you are. This is an accomplishment (n.) I realize now for the first time in my life that accomplish has no adverb at all, at least that I know of, but who knows what Charles is capable of coming up with. :)
Of course Gloria, accomplish
Of course Gloria, accomplish is not a noun. The french noun coming from the verb "to accomplish/accomplir" is "accomplissement". But there is no noun deriving from the verb "accomplir" corresponding to "accomplisher".
Also, there is no adverbial form to accomplir in French.
absorbed with miracles.
We have - in our common language - peace workers, in so-called spiritual circles, light workers, we have aid workers, we have workers in the vineyard of the Lord. Why not miracle workers?
God says, when we are absorbed with water, that is, when we are absorbed with the miracle of water, we have an occasion for joy then, we have an occasion to work with the miracle of water, we have an occasion to translate or to convert or to reset or to transplant the miracle of the energy of water. When we drink water, the miracle of the energy of water translates into a miracle in our body, into a miracle of refreshed energy in our body. So, drinking is one way of working with the miracle of water.
Another way of working with the miracle of water is melting ice cubes. Which is, as God says and as we are invited to see it with His eyes, producing miracles.
Creating miracles is - pronounced in the terms of the world - a common, a daily matter among humans, we are not used to pay particular attention to it.
Being translators of languages or not, we are engendering miracles, while being occupied with water, while being absorbed with words, with breathing, with stretching and so on.
Are we not a miracle worker of sorts on our own?
Theophil
Yes, yes, yes, beloved
Yes, yes, yes, beloved Theophil.
Yes, all of us. We are miracle workers, and we, ourselves, are miracles.
I have long thought that many of the people here are bona-fide angels. I don't know what else to think.
We are certainly God's messengers, and that's what I've heard angels are.
It's a miracle that we are all connected here, that translators come and perform their miracles.
How did this happen? How does it happen?
Wonder after wonder grace us all.
Well said, Theophil!
Well said, Theophil!
Yes, Theophil, this is a
Yes, Theophil, this is a very accurate exposé to interpret this problematic sentence.